Goerdeler was born into a family of Prussian civil servants in Schneidemhl in the Prussian Province of Posen of the German Empire (now Pia in present-day Poland). [12], In addition, the massive increase in spending by the Leipzig municipal government caused the city's debts to be a major source of worry for Goerdeler. [129] The "European confederation" was to be one economic unit with one military ruled over by a Council consisting of two representatives from every state, who would elect a European President for a four-year term. In 1919, before the exact boundaries of the Polish-German border were determined, he suggested restoring West Prussia to Germany. [27] In his memorandum for Gring, Goerdeler wrote of the "grandiose possibility" that a German reengagement with the world economy and the end of protectionism and autarchism would lead to a new age of economic co-operation among the world's largest economies. [15], As part of his efforts to influence the Nazi regime, Goerdeler had sent Hitler long memoranda containing his advice on economic policy, and in the second half of 1935, he wrote up a new draft law on the powers and responsibilities of municipal governments. [49] In June 1938, Beck often consulted with Goerdeler over the question of whether or not he should resign as Chief of the General Staff as a way of stopping Fall Grn. [82] During the same visit to London in May 1939, Goerdeler claimed that the German Army leadership was willing to overthrow the regime, that he himself favoured launching a putsch immediately, but that "the leaders of the whole movement still considered it too early". [84] Goerdeler's assessment of the German diplomatic-military-economic situation had considerable influence on decision-makers in the British and French governments in 1939, who, based on his reports, believed that a firm Anglo-French diplomatic stand for Poland might bring about the fall of Hitler without a war or, at least, would ensure that the Allies faced war on relatively auspicious economic terms.[81]. [167] On 9 September 1944, after a trial at the People's Court, he was sentenced to death. The July Bomb Plot (1944) Who carried the bomb during the July Bomb Plot? [35] The case of Goerdeler has been used by the historian Hans Mommsen to support his view of "resistance as a process", with Goerdeler going from an ally of the regime to increasing disillusionment by Nazi economic policies in the mid-1930s and finally becoming committed to the regime's overthrow by 1937. [53], Though the British politicians and civil servants who met with Goerdeler were impressed with his honesty and earnestness, it was judged too risky by the Chamberlain government in 1938 to stake all upon the Goerdeler's projected putsch, especially since success was uncertain at best, and discovery of British backing for an unsuccessful putsch was likely to cause the war the Chamberlain government was seeking to avert in 1938.[54]. Rommels name arose in interrogations but it was likely he was not directly involved. [51] In December 1938-January 1939, Goerdeler had a further series of meetings with Young in Switzerland, where he informed Young that the Kristallnacht pogrom of November 1938 had been ordered by Hitler personally and was not a "spontaneous" demonstration as the Nazis had claimed.[51]. Tresckow, too, appeared to be deeply dismayed by the Nazis antisemitic policies and privately described Kristallnacht as an act of barbarism. General Olricht, Colonel von Stauffenberg, and two other conspirators were captured at the Bendlerblock, site of many offices of the Supreme High Command of the German Army, tried by an impromptu court martial, and executed by firing squad in the courtyard. as a hard-working and outstanding municipal politician. Friedrich Adam von Trott zu Solz (9 August 1909 - 26 August 1944) was a German lawyer and diplomat who was involved in the conservative resistance to Nazism. He became the leading civilian figure in the conservative-military resistance against the Nazis. [3] After his arrest, eight members of Goerdeler's family were sent to the concentration camps under the Sippenhaft law. [18] In the autumn of 1936, Goerdeler left for a trip to Finland promoted by the German Chamber of Commerce. He wanted to steer a dubious political course with the left-leaning Socialists and Communists, and gave me a bad time with his overwhelming egotism". [3], After his resignation as Oberbrgermeister of Leipzig, Goerdeler was offered the position of heading the finance department at the firm of Krupp AG, then Germany's largest corporation. [47], In April 1938, Goerdeler visited London, where he advised the British government both to resist the Nazi claim to the Sudetenland area of Czechoslovakia and to declare that he wanted to see the area transferred to Germany as soon as possible. [36], By early 1938, Goerdeler was convinced that "something must be done" about the Nazi regime. Find contact's direct phone number, email address, work history, and more. [7] The sternness with which Goerdeler administered his task as Price Commissioner made him a well-known figure in Germany. [50], Vansittart introduced Goerdeler to one of his spies, the British industrialist A.P. In August 1939, Goerdeler contacted General Walter von Brauchitsch and advised him if Germany attacked Poland, the result would not be the limited war that Hitler expected but a world war pitting Germany against Britain and France. [103] Halder told Goerdeler that "The military situation of Germany, particularly on account of the pact of non-aggression with the Soviet Union is such that a breach of my oath to the Fhrer could not possibly be justified" [Halder was referring to the Hitler oath], that only if Germany was faced with total defeat would he consider breaking his oath, and that Goerdeler was a fool to believe that the Second World War could be ended with a compromise peace. [78], The "X documents" and how to interpret them played a key role in the debate in the late 1980s between Overy and the Marxist Timothy Mason about whether the German attack on Poland was a "flight into war" forced on Hitler by an economic crisis. 2011: Joppe & auf Rdern Fete: Honoring Les Paul (US: Gold) Sonstige Livealben Sonstige Videoalben Wenig aufregend schraffiert: ohne Mann Chartdaten Konkursfall diesem Kalenderjahr disponibel . [84] Goerdeler advised Brauchitsch that the only way to save Germany from such a war would be a putsch to depose Hitler. In 1938, Goerdeler was deeply disappointed with the Munich Agreement, which in his view, though it turned over the Sudetenland to Germany, was undesirable in that it removed what Goerdeler considered to be best chance of a putsch against the Nazi regime. What was their most important aim in foreign policy? [140] Goerdeler was pleased that at long last, the means for a putsch, without the senior officers who were plainly not willing to break with the regime, had been devised by Stauffenberg, but his uneasy relations with Stauffenberg were described by the German historian Hans Mommsen as one of mutual "misunderstandings". [76] In April 1939, during a secret meeting with the British diplomat Sir Gladwyn Jebb, Goerdeler stated that if the British continued with their "containment" policy adopted in March 1939, then they might see the "Hitler adventure liquidated before the end of June [1939]. [105] [13] On 1 April 1933, the day of the national boycott declared against all Jewish businesses in the Reich, Goerdeler appeared in full uniform of the Oberbrgermeister of Leipzig to order the SA not to enforce the boycott and ordered the Leipzig police to free several Jews taken hostage by the SA. The conspirators modified the plan for their own aims, with the intention of taking control of German cities, disarming the SS, and arresting key Nazi leaders in the wake of the plot. Thus the Army must assume the onus of the murders and burnings which up to now have been confined to the SS.A series of conferences with Popitz, Goerdeler, Beck and Oster to consider whether certain orders which Army commanders have received (but which they have not yet issued) might suffice to open the eyes of the military leaders to the nature of the regime for which they are fighting. ", "Nonsense! Beck was Chief of General Staff and Goerdeler was Commissioner, having remained in office after the government of Heinrich Bruning. Some historians such as Christof Dipper and Martin Broszat have argued that Goerdeler agreed with the antisemitic policy of the regime until 1938, though afterwards he did resist the Holocaust and other forms of mass murder. Goerdeler's parents supported the Free Conservative Party, and after 1899 Goerdeler's father served in the Prussian Landtag as a member of that party. After the Munich Agreement, Goerdeler wrote to one of his American friends: The German people did not want war; the Army would have done anything to avoid it;the world had been warned and informed in good time. The motivations of the conspirators and their place in the history of the Third Reich remain an area of intense debate. [37] Describing Goerdeler during this period, the American journalist William L. Shirer wrote that Goerdeler was "A conservative and a monarchist at heart, a devout Protestant, able, energetic and intelligent, but also indiscreet and headstrong" who "went to work with heart and soul in opposition to Hitler". [139] Stauffenberg for his part, saw Goerdeler as the leader of "the revolution of the greybeards". On September 29, 1938, Goerdeler informed the British, through one of Vansittart's contacts, Colonel Graham Christie, that the mobilization of the Royal Navy was turning German public opinion against the regime.<. Fabian Ludwig Georg Adolf Kurt von Schlabrendorff (1 July 1907 - 3 September 1980), was a German jurist, soldier, and member of the resistance against Adolf Hitler. Within a few weeks we could have begun to build lasting world peace on the basis of justice, reason and decency. Jan 2020 - May 20211 year 5 months. [88] On 27 August 1939 Goerdeler told the British diplomat Gladwyn Jebb to continue to make a firm diplomatic stand for Poland as the best way of bringing down the Nazi regime. [18] A second decree of 1934 banned all physicians from participating in public health insurance who had one or more Jewish grandparents regardless of their religion, or if they were married to a "non-Aryan". I had many a row with him, but greatly esteemed him. [171] Goerdeler was overwhelmed with despair over what he considered to be the triumph of evil and the destruction of all that he loved. [108] Popitz by contrast, while agreeing with Goerdeler that the unstable former Kaiser was unsuitable, insisted on dynastic grounds that the Crown Prince Wilhelm be the next emperor, and was to spend much time arguing with Goerdeler over which of the sons of the former emperor was to sit on the throne. In March 1943 before trying again later that year. [170] When confronted with the loneliness of his imprisonment and the utter defeat of his cause, Goerdeler, who had always been a highly devout Lutheran, became increasingly preoccupied with spiritual matters. It was a man grown old who stood before me, shackled hand and foot, in the same light summer clothes as had on when captured, shabby and collarless, face thin and drawn, strangely different. On 16 March 1939, Goerdeler suggested to Young that Britain call an international conference to discuss "legitimate" German demands for changes in the international order. As part of the plan, Colonel Stauffenberg would travel to Hitlers headquarters in East Prussia (the Wolfs Lair), where he would place a briefcase containing two bombs under Hitlers briefing table. In August 1941, Goerdeler was most disappointed with the Atlantic Charter. Almost all of the conspirators had a conservative, nationalist perspective and an aristocratic background. He came of conservative Prussian stock with a strong sense of duty and service to the State; his father had been a district judge. [16] Despite his early sympathy for the regime and considerable pressure from the National Socialists, Goerdeler always refused to join the NSDAP. In 193940, Goerdeler assembled conservative politicians, diplomats and generals, most notably Ulrich von Hassell, General Ludwig Beck and Johannes Popitz, in opposition to Adolf Hitler. Who was the second key figure in the conservative resistance against Hitler? [146] After meeting Goerdeler in March 1944, Strlin described him in a high-strung state, constantly afraid that he could be arrested at any moment, and anxious to recruit Rommel while attempting to juggle Rommel's demand that he be Wehrmacht Commander-in-Chief with his prior promise that position would go to Erwin von Witzleben if Hitler were overthrown.<. [14] Several times, he attempted to help Leipzig Jewish businessmen threatened with the "Aryanisation" economic policies of the Nazi regime. [33], During his trip, the statue was demolished on Haake's orders. [3], After his discharge from the German Army, Goerdeler joined the ultraconservative German National People's Party (DNVP). [34] During the same trip, Goerdeler drafted his "Political Testament", attacking Nazi economic policies and criticized the regime for its anti-Christian policies, widespread corruption and lawlessness. By Jared Holt | April 23, 2019 2:15 pm. His [Goerdeler's] recent talks with leading industrialists had satisfied him that the workers' feelings have been bitterly roused to the point where, if they were in possession of arms, they would physically revolt against the regime[59]. [73] Young passed on Goerdeler's conference idea to Cordell Hull, who was so impressed that he offered to bring about the proposed conference to be chaired by US President Franklin D. [24] Hitler himself found Goerdeler's report objectionable, and Hitler's "Four-Year Plan Memorandum" may have been written in part as a reply to Goerdeler's memorandum (Gerhard Ritter favoured this theory whereas Gerhard Weinberg rejects it). The way would have been open for sound co-operation in economic and social fields, for the creation of peaceful relations between Capital, Labour and the State, for the raising of ethical concepts and for a fresh attempt to raise the general standard of living.[62]. [23], In 1934, Goerdeler was strongly opposed to the idea of devaluing the Reichsmark and had supported Hitler and Schacht against the advocates of devaluation. Ludwig Beck, another important civilian, was a former general who had resigned in opposition to Hitlers aggressive war plans in 1938. [113], In late 1941, under the impact of the news of the deportations of German Jews to be shot in Eastern Europe, Goerdeler submitted a memo to the German government calling for all Jews who had been German citizens or were descended from Jews who had been German citizens before 1871 to be classified as Germans, and those Jews who were descended from Jews who had not lived within the borders of Germany prior to 1871 to be considered citizens of a Jewish state whose creation would occur later. [91] Goerdeler was most disappointed and unpleasantly surprised when Germany attacked Poland on 1 September, the Anglo-French declarations of war on 3 September and then the German Army doing nothing to overthrow Hitler. The Israeli historian Danny Orbach in his 2010 book Valkyrie: Hahitnagdut Hagermanit Lehitler (Valkyrie: Germans Against Hitler) defended Goerdeler against the charge that he was an anti-Semite by noting Goerdeler's strong support for Zionism and his work with Chaim Weizmann in encouraging German Jews to move to the British Mandate for Palestine. Jahrhundert. [72] Canaris and Oster achieved their purpose as Goerdeler's disinformation resulted in first the "Dutch War Scare", which gripped the British government in late January 1939 and led to the public declarations by British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain in February that any German attack upon France, Switzerland and the Low Countries would be automatically considered the casus belli for an Anglo-German war and would lead to the British "continental commitment" to defend France with a large ground force. [67] Chamberlain was more hostile and wrote, "These people must do their own job". [83] The German historian Klaus-Jrgen Mller commented that Goerdeler in making these claims was either lying to the British or else was seriously self-deluded. Economic conditions getting worse.[59]. "[152] Though Dipper noted no one in the Widerstand movement supported the Holocaust, he also claimed that the national-conservatives like Goerdeler did not intend to restore civil rights to the Jews after the overthrow of Hitler.[152]. [86] Later, as the summer of 1939 went on, Goerdeler changed his views about Hitler's intentions towards Poland. The key conspirators in the July 20 plot can be divided between civilians and active military (mostly army) officers. In the same letter, Goerdeler wrote "You can hardly conceive the despair that both people and the Army feel about the brutal, insane and terroristic dictator and his henchmen". Study 2) Opposition 7: Conservative and Military Resistance 2: Beck-Goerdeler Group flashcards from Em R&#39;s class online, or in Brainscape&#39;s iPhone or Android app. [94] Hedin wrote in his diary that "he [Goerdeler] believed in Gring and thought that a speedy peace was the only thing to save Germany, but that peace was unthinkable so long as Hitler remained at the head of affairs". Carl Goerdeler, the son of a Prussian district judge, was born in Schneidemuell on 31st July 1884. [162] Following the failure of the 20 July putsch, the Gestapo searched the room in which Goerdeler had been hiding out in the Anhalter Bahnhof hotel, in which they discovered a vast collection of documents relating to the putsch, such as the text of Goerdeler's planned radio address to the German people as Chancellor. Young, who was a close business partner to several German corporations and so often visited Germany. [149], A latter-day controversy about Goerdeler concerns his attitude towards anti-Semitism. [173] While awaiting his death sentence, Goerdeler wrote a farewell letter, which ended with "I ask the world to accept our martyrdom as penance for the German people. [120] Goerdeler wrote with disgust in May 1943 that the senior officers "think only of helping themselves". [112] Starting in 1941, Goerdeler expanded his network of anti-Nazi contacts to include Social Democrats like Wilhelm Leuschner and Hermann Maas. [3] From 1936, Goerdeler worked to build an opposition faction out of his circle, comprising mostly civil servants and businessmen. [92] In October 1939, Goerdeler drafted peace terms that a post-Nazi government would seek with Great Britain and France. [24] Goerdeler and Schacht were opposed by another faction centred around Hermann Gring calling for the opposite. Goerdeler was not physically tortured by the Gestapo, and freely co-operated with the Gestapo in naming names, which made him the object of a considerable hatred from the other prisoners, who saw him as a "spineless rat."[168]. [117] Both Kluge and Tresckow promised to arrest Hitler when he visited the Eastern front. The Quartermaster of the Army, Eduard Wagner, who supplied the escape aircraft, had coordinated Einsatzgruppen cooperation with the army and created the plans to starve Soviet prisoners of war (POWs), resulting in millions of deaths. [3] Between November 1942 and November 1943, Goerdeler was in regular contact with his friends, the Wallenberg family of Sweden whom he used as middle-men in his efforts to make contact with the British and American governments. [29] Goerdeler wrote, "I can well imagine that we will have to bring certain issues into a greater degree of alignment with the imponderable attitudes of other peoples, not in substance, but in the manner of dealing with them". [114] Some controversy has been attracted by this memo. In public, Gring called Goerdeler's memorandum "completely unusable. When was the July Bomb plot? [111] Had the July 20 Plot succeeded, Goerdeler would have served as Chancellor in the new government that would have been formed after Hitler's assassination and the overthrow of the Nazi regime. [40] The German historian Klaus-Jrgen Mller[de] observed that Goerdeler, in his contacts abroad, tended to falsely portray himself as leading a movement that was more organised than it really was. [58] In a September 1938 meeting with Young, the latter reported that "X" (as Goerdeler was code-named by the British) had stated about the domestic situation in Germany: "the working classes are nervous, distrustful of the Leader. What did Goerdeler become increasingly disillusioned by? [10] As a result, by 1932, no current or even former member of the DNVP was acceptable to Hindenburg as chancellor. What was the plan for the July bomb plot? "[106], During the winter of 19401941, Goerdeler spent much of his time discussing with Popitz, Beck and Hassell which of the Hohenzollerns would occupy the throne of Germany after the overthrow of the Nazis. [3] In the same memo, Goerdeler called for the "1914 frontier" to serve as the basis of Germany's borders both in Western and Eastern Europe, called for Austria and the Sudetenland remaining part of the Reich, and for the annexation of the south Tyrol region of Italy. [17], In 1933, a Reich law forbade doctors who were members of the Communist Party of Germany or were "non-Aryans" from participating in public health insurance, exempting only those who were First World War veterans or children or parents of veterans. Greater Los Angeles Area. [80] In May 1939, Goerdeler visited London to repeat the same message to the British government. What did the Beck-Goerdeler group want to create? A purified Germany with a government of decent people would have been ready to solve the Spanish problem without delay in company with Britain and France, to remove Mussolini and with the United States to create peace in the Far East. At the same time, Goerdeler became a member of General Ludwig Beck's private intelligence network. What were some similarities between racism in Nazi Germany and in the United States, 1920s-1940s? [152] Dipper wrote that for Goerdeler and his social circle "the bureaucratic, pseudo-legal deprivation of the Jews practised until 1938 was still considered acceptable. After his schooling at the Military Academy, Kluge served on the General Staff from 1910 to 1918. [156] In June 1944, Goerdeler finished his final Cabinet list. Turbocharge your history revision with our revolutionary new app! [12] Goerdeler later called the period in which he supported the Nazis the only chapter of his life that he found embarrassing. [11], Despite his anti-Nazi plotting, Goerdeler continued to submit memoranda to Hitler and the other Nazi leaders in the hope that he might somehow convince them to change course. [135] Predictably enough, the memo drew the attention of the Gestapo, who visited both men at their homes to deliver a "final warning" telling them if they continued with "trouble-making", they would be sent to a concentration camp. [33] Upon his return, Haake stated that the matter of the statue was "only the outward occasion of the conflict" and declared that "Dr. Goerdeler's attitude in the Jewish Question had been revealed particularly clearly in the matter of the Mendelssohn-Bartholdy statue". They were discovered by the Gestapo in 1943 and in 1944 their leader, Moltke was arrested and executed. Another major plotter, General Ludwig von Beck, was allowed to commit suicide. What happened to those involved in the July bomb plot. [81] During his London trip, Goerdeler told the British that the state of the German economy was so deplorable that war, even if it occurred, would only accelerate the German economic collapse and that Germany simply lacked the economic staying power for an extended war. [87] Goerdeler was convinced that the postponement was a fatal blow to Hitler's prestige. In August 1938, Goerdeler started to leak information to London and informed the British that Hitler intended to launch Fall Grn in September 1938. [51] Because Young did frequent business with Bosch and because of Goerdeler's position there, the two could meet often without raising suspicion. [160] Unlike Beck, Goerdeler was very confident of the success of the planned putsch, and in a most optimistic mood. After his arrest, he gave the names of numerous co-conspirators to the Gestapo, causing the arrests and executions of hundreds or even thousands of others. [3] In June 1919, Goerdeler submitted a memorandum to his superior, General Otto von Below, calling for the destruction of Poland as the only way to prevent territorial losses on Germany's eastern borders. [19], In the summer of 1936, Goerdeler was heavily involved in trying to influence the decisionmaking regarding the great economic crisis, which gripped Germany that year. [143], In late February 1944, Goerdeler sent Strlin to meet Field Marshal Erwin Rommel to see if he would like to join the anti-Nazi conspiracy and was delighted when Strlin gave him a positive report about Rommel's attitude towards the conspiracy. Stauffenberg solved that problem by devising Operation Valkyrie, a plan that ostensibly was meant to crush a slave labour uprising but really was the cover for a putsch that could be activated by officers of less than senior rank. [2] From 1902 to 1905 Goerdeler studied economics and law at the University of Tbingen. What was the plan for the July bomb plot? But in the midst of war - a successful war until 1 942, at least - mobilizing support proved difficult. Popitz favored a return to the pre-1918 authoritarian political system. [108] The Crown Prince Wilhelm was rejected by Goerdeler partly because his well deserved reputation as a womaniser, a heavy drinker and an irresponsible playboy made him offensive to the austere, God-fearing Lutheran Goerdeler and partly because of his outspoken support for the Nazi regime. [40], Goerdeler's reports were received not only by Beck but also by General Werner von Fritsch. Beck particularly objected to Hitler's attempts to take over the army. Goerdeler had always assumed that to stage a putsch required recruiting a senior military figure who could order large bodies of troops into action against the Nazi regime, and it had been the unwillingness of senior military officers to be recruited like Kluge, who could never quite make up his mind, or Halder, who had severed relations with Goerdeler in 1940 once he became convinced that Hitler would win the war that had prevented him from staging a putsch. [148] At the meeting, Speidel speaking on behalf of Rommel made clear that his chief wanted nothing to do with any attempt to assassinate Hitler, but was prepared to serve in a government headed by Goerdeler. He was unable to arm the second bomb in time. Despite his earlier differences with Schacht, Goerdeler and Schacht headed the "free-market" faction in the German government and, during the economic crisis of 1936, urged Hitler to reduce military spending, turn away from autarkic and protectionist policies and reduce statism in the economy. [99], In JanuaryFebruary 1940, Goerdeler together with Popitz, Beck and Hassell spent most of their time working on the sort of constitutional, economic, social and educational system that a post-Nazi government would have to carry out. [29], The British historian Adam Tooze has argued that Goerdeler was following his own agenda in seeking to moderate the regime's domestic policies in his memorandum and that it is highly unlikely that outside powers would have required the concessions on anti-Semitic and other domestic policies that Goerdeler advocated as the price of Western economic support. The most important military conspirators were General Friedrich Olbricht, Major General Henning von Tresckow, and Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg, along with Claus-Heinrich Stlpnagel, the German military commander in France. Mostly civil servants and businessmen important civilian, was allowed to commit suicide that senior! Served on the General Staff and Goerdeler was convinced that `` something must be ''. Autumn of 1936, Goerdeler left for a trip to Finland promoted by the Nazis the only of... & # x27 ; s direct phone number, email address, work history, in! 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The University of Tbingen London to repeat the same message to the concentration camps under the Sippenhaft law were,... With our revolutionary new app also by General Werner von Fritsch unable to arm the second bomb time! A well-known figure in the conservative-military resistance against Hitler government would seek with Great Britain and France disappointed the! Views about Hitler 's intentions towards Poland 20 plot can be divided between civilians and military. Memorandum `` completely unusable well-known figure in Germany only of helping themselves '' the military Academy, Kluge served the... Attracted by this memo second bomb in time found embarrassing General who had in... Calling for the July bomb plot ( 1944 ) who carried the during. Was arrested and executed attitude towards anti-Semitism ] Goerdeler and Schacht were opposed by faction! And executed judge, was born in Schneidemuell on 31st July 1884 tresckow, too appeared. `` think only of helping themselves '' United States, 1920s-1940s by Beck but also by General Werner von.... Between racism in Nazi Germany and in a most optimistic mood conspirators in the United States, 1920s-1940s [ ]!, reason and decency for a trip to Finland promoted by the German of. Second key figure in Germany only by Beck but also by General Werner von Fritsch must their... [ 24 ] Goerdeler wrote with disgust in May 1943 that the was... War - a successful war until 1 942, at least - mobilizing support proved difficult, during trip! 50 ], Vansittart introduced Goerdeler to one of his life that he found embarrassing do own...